25 Responses to “Betting on infinity”

1. TheLightBearer1969 Says:
   December 12th, 2011 at 10:12 pm

   Masterful. Another deceivingly simple argument to silence all the superticious. By contrast their arguments seem intricate as they need to justify themselves by themselves, not through logic.

2. pautpy Says:
   December 12th, 2011 at 11:11 pm

   As a theist, I never did understand why other theists would use Pascal’s wager argument as any justifiable reason for believing in a God.

3. Clearie552 Says:
   December 12th, 2011 at 11:55 pm

   that soundtrack was seriously cool!

4. TheraminTrees Says:
   December 13th, 2011 at 12:17 am

   @PazingerZ Thanks. It was cropping up as an argument time and time again when we did this video — got tired of repeating ourselves. Such a terrible argument too isn’t it — a horse that fails every hurdle.

5. TheraminTrees Says:
   December 13th, 2011 at 1:12 am

   @Skyhawk02 Thanks. Qualia and I thought Pascal’s wager can be a bit dry — if we were going to address it, we wanted to have some fun doing it.

6. PazingerZ Says:
   December 13th, 2011 at 1:16 am

   Thank you for making this video. It’s tiring to have to refute the same flawed argument over and over, but the two of you have done so in the most eloquent and engaging way that I’ve ever seen. Much appreciated!

7. Skyhawk02 Says:
   December 13th, 2011 at 1:55 am

   Whoa, these videos blow my mind every time! It is amazing how well you guys translate thoughts into clear understandable words. You have taken difficult concepts and made them accessible to anyone willing to take a few minutes and watch your videos. I only just discovered these and am looking forward to learning more. Keep up the good work!

8. Forseti6288 Says:
   December 13th, 2011 at 2:18 am

   When I am contemplating this type of thing I am often in a quiet relaxed setting, maybe in my house after reading a book. It’s a completely different atmosphere while watching your video. It’s intense and exciting! haha. I’m on the edge of my seat. It’s like drug-induced pure logic. If only it were that simple =P.

9. Jotto999 Says:
   December 13th, 2011 at 2:43 am

   What a marvellous video. The text was going by too damn fast though, I didn’t really “watch” the video as I did repeatedly pause and resume.

10. TheraminTrees Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 3:26 am

    @DirdeeD ‘if you diligently research, certain truths will become self-evident’
    —Oh. Could you please tell me this evidence you’ve found then. Many of us have researched diligently — and found no gods. If you have such evidence, I’m open to hearing it. Approaching religion with an open mind also means recognising its biasses, special-pleading and unworkable arguments.

11. DirdeeD Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 4:08 am

    @TheraminTrees My point was that although there are many different teachings, many sects within particular religions believe in the same basic principles. You can choose whatever you like, but if you diligently research, certain truths will become self-evident. If you approach both science and religion with an open mind, you can grasp the relation easier. Religious texts were written thousands of years ago. People look at these ancient texts with modern eyes and no wonder they don’t get it.

12. TheraminTrees Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 4:18 am

    @DirdeeD ‘If the divine does exist, and it does care about you, it would want you to find the truth.’
    —The logical conclusions of that particular argument are either:
    a. the divine is incapable of helping you out in the impossible task of sorting through all the currently available — let alone possible future — divine concepts in one lifetime. With the total of any divine evidence, it comes down to faith — and on that basis, you can choose whatever you like.
    b. the divine doesn’t exist.

13. DirdeeD Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 5:16 am

    A very persuasive video. Although, many denominations within religions believe in the same basic things to reach salvation, and there are many with zero or minimal ritualistic practices. Keep in mind that we know quite a bit about these religions and researching them isn’t a futile waste of time. Follow your heart and think of the possibilities. If the divine does exist, and it does care about you, it would want you to find the truth.

14. TheraminTrees Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 5:56 am

    @IXPrometheusXI On behalf of me and Qualia, thanks — glad you enjoyed it. We found Pascal’s Wager a tedious, desiccated old argument but it kept on being put to us — so we wanted to have some fun with the debunking.

15. IXPrometheusXI Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 6:51 am

    I’m watching this video again after months and it’s still fantastic. It’s a concise refutation presented in a audio-visually engaging and emotionally compelling format that you just don’t get anywhere else on YouTube. Or anywhere else I can think of for that matter. The way the words move to compartmentalize important information, the way the sound creates tension, the way the animation creates a sense of progression… And I see you even still comment here.

    You are… so cool. SO cool, dude.

16. TheraminTrees Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 7:20 am

    @AQGOAT24 Deism’s had a varied history, and there’ve been different approaches among deists about the expression of their beliefs — some reject the idea of prayer altogether, while others see a value in prayer as an expression of gratitude/supplication to their god, or for its meditative qualities. It’s been termed a ‘natural religion’ — as opposed to ‘revealed’ religions, based on revelation claims from scripture, miracles, etc..

17. AQGOAT24 Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 8:09 am

    Just wondering is deism considered a religion? I just thought it was a similar stance as Atheism, in the sense that deists just believe in god and that’s it. There are no rituals or rules they have to follow, as Atheism they do not believe in God and there are no rules for being an Atheist. Or maybe there is more to Deism that I missed initially.

18. AtheismIsCorrect Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 8:55 am

    @TheBrownies0wn It’s sarcastic. I wrote that, and I though it was stupid until I saw “anticornco6” at the bottom. I laughed.

19. kenn714 Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 9:06 am

    @chrisdryer I don’t want to believe in what I want, I want my beliefs to match reality.

20. chrisdryer Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 9:28 am

    @TheraminTrees

    It’s a shame that we all can’t have knowledge so power is uneven,… for example I don’t think I will again know enough about the presidential candidates… haha… (I didn’t actually think anyone would respond to my comment… haha.) btw – Increasing our empathy is more than a text book can teach because you have to know thyself of course…which is always in motion.

21. TheraminTrees Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 10:19 am

    @chrisdryer ‘Salesmanship and propaganda techniques are examples of knowledge that empowers as long as it is not identified. Sounds like early religion…’
    —Yes there are lots of elements of salesmanship and propaganda in religion. And learning how to resist sales people, and to see through and debunk propaganda are also kinds of knowledge.

22. TheraminTrees Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 11:18 am

    @chrisdryer ‘I guess I forget that you are talking directly to people who perform rituals or something’
    —I’m talking to people who were repeatedly suggesting their christian god was the ‘best bet’ — Pascal’s wager.
    ‘Advances in science can just as easily produce good as they can problems ….’
    —And if we advance far enough, increasing our understanding of our human frailties and shortcomings, maybe we’ll have a better chance overcoming them.

23. chrisdryer Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 11:28 am

    @TheraminTrees

    My daily life is not affected by my origins before I was born or when I die. I guess I forget that you are talking directly to people who perform rituals or something?

    Advances in science can just as easily produce good as they can problems, consequences or be corrupted for the sake of those who have the knowledge to have power. Salesmanship and propaganda techniques are examples of knowledge that empowers as long as it is not identified. Sounds like early religion…

24. TheraminTrees Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 11:57 am

    @chrisdryer ‘does it really matter if it is “science” or “God” or “gods” or aliens ….’
    —If you care whether what you believe is true, yep.
    ‘in the end you will believe what you want’
    —Some might. I don’t ‘want’ to believe anything specific — I want to learn what’s real.
    ‘not even science can make value/moral judgments that will last’
    —Science is a better candidate than anything I’ve heard put forward. If morality is based on our knowledge, we need good knowledge-expanding tools. Not dogma.

25. chrisdryer Says:
    December 13th, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    Well… I do think Pascal has preference to religion, but in the end, does it really matter if it is “science” or “God” or “gods” or aliens dreaming of our life (lately my preference), in the end you will believe what you want, make what you want of the facts in front of you, and not even science can make value/moral judgments that will last… definitions changing like the shifting ground beneath our feet. In the end, everything unknowable just comes back full circle.

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